A to Z teams lack of training strikes again, $600 dollar lost is our reward.
Customer orders a $600 dollar item so we request a signature of course. Purolator tries to deliver but the customer is not home so the item is taken to a Purolator Agent and the customer is informed where they can pick it up.
Customer picks the item up, shows identification and signs for the package. A week later the customer files a claim that they did not get the item.
Should be an easy claim right? We have a signature.
A to Z claim grants the claim stating we did not deliver the item to the correct location because the customer picked it up and signed for it at the Purolator Agent.
The A to Z process is beyond frustrating, we do everything in our power properly and the customer decides they want the item for free and A to Z is happy to accommodate.
The order is 701-4510994-2560227 if a moderator has any feed back we would appreciate it as we are tire of getting product stolen with Amazon's assistance
Jason
Konquer Motorcycles.
A to Z teams lack of training strikes again, $600 dollar lost is our reward.
Customer orders a $600 dollar item so we request a signature of course. Purolator tries to deliver but the customer is not home so the item is taken to a Purolator Agent and the customer is informed where they can pick it up.
Customer picks the item up, shows identification and signs for the package. A week later the customer files a claim that they did not get the item.
Should be an easy claim right? We have a signature.
A to Z claim grants the claim stating we did not deliver the item to the correct location because the customer picked it up and signed for it at the Purolator Agent.
The A to Z process is beyond frustrating, we do everything in our power properly and the customer decides they want the item for free and A to Z is happy to accommodate.
The order is 701-4510994-2560227 if a moderator has any feed back we would appreciate it as we are tire of getting product stolen with Amazon's assistance
Jason
Konquer Motorcycles.
Seller_E4U8aNuzTRyGy
@Jurgen_Amazon I am not a party to this transaction but I am a seller.
I appreciate your detailed explanation of the process and your efforts to ensure clarity on this matter, these are important issues for all sellers to understand and address in order to be successful on Amazon.
However, I need to highlight that what you have suggested is not possible with both Canada Post and Purolator, our approved carriers.
Let me try to explain further:
Canada Post: According to their policy on signatures and identity services, if a recipient is not home to receive a package that requires a signature, it will be taken to the nearest Canada Post branch for pickup. This is in line with the policy outlined on their website.
Purolator: Purolator allows the receiver to authorize the delivery driver to leave a package without a signature, but only with a signed note posted at the delivery location. If the package requires a signature and the delivery is missed, the package will be held for pickup and this cannot be circumvented. This is clearly stated in their policy as well.
Additionally, buyers are under no obligation to respond to sellers' messages. This can be problematic in situations where:
The buyer is willfully engaging in fraudulent activity.
The buyer does not see the message.
The buyer has set their preferences to prevent seller messages from being received.
If Amazon lists a carrier as approved on their website, it should imply that the carrier's signature requirements are implicitly approved. Sellers cannot supersede carrier policy simply by stating that Amazon requires a different process.
Given these policies and buyer behaviors, it is not feasible to set the order as undeliverable or coordinate with the buyer to redirect the package to another location or leave it at the door unless the specific conditions mentioned by Purolator are met. This makes it challenging to reconcile these discrepancies and adhere to the process you've outlined.
Could you please provide further guidance on how to handle such situations? It seems that the current policies of our carriers might allow buyers to potentially exploit these rules and claim non-delivery, thus defrauding sellers. We want to ensure we are compliant with carrier policies while also protecting our business from fraudulent claims.
Thank you for your understanding and assistance in this matter.
Best regards,
19 replies
Jurgen_Amazon
Hello @Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ,
Thank you for contacting Amazon Forums.
I have reviewed the details and escalated to the team in charge of further review. I will keep you posted as soon as they provide an answer.
Jurgen
Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ
Update, to know one's surprise the customer is no longer replying to our messages. Only Amazon would think that is the behavior of an honest person.
Seller_7hGoB5ghJX0Vy
amazon must fund this case no matter what. Signature + pick up from customer. I dont understand what you need to do more
Jurgen_Amazon
Hello @Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ,
Sharing with you the answer provided by the team that reviewed the escalation I made:
After reviewing your request, we have determined the seller will remain responsible for this claim associated to order # 701-4510994-2560227 based on the details and circumstances of this transaction. We cannot reverse our decision for this dispute because Seller did not fulfill the order to address we have on file. All orders must be shipped to the address provided by Amazon.
Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ
Jurgen
@Jurgen_Amazon
The package was attempted to be delivered but the customer was not home to sign. The package was then taken to a Purolator depot and picked up, signed for and the customer showed ID.
Why does you team not listen to the facts of this delivery and instead hide behind the inaccurate claim this package was delivered to the wrong address.
IT WAS NOT DELIVERED. IT WAS PICKED UP AT THE PUROLATOR DEPOT
The customer went to the Purolator depot, showed ID and signed for the package. This type of transaction happens every day in Canada.
Please show me in Amazon's policies where it states that a product that a customer picks up from the courier's depot is not a legitimate delivery?
Your Team is treating this like the courier delivered it to an address that was not correct. That is not accurate.
We sent transcripts of our conversation with Purolator courier who explained the address it was delivered to is a Purolator depot. Purolator recently updated their tracking message to show customers where they can pick up and item that requires a signature as previously it was difficult to determine where to go for pick up.
Jason
Jurgen_Amazon
@Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ,
Let me try to explain the process, so we can be on the same page.
The order must be delivered within the Estimated Delivery Date (EDD) to the address on file. We do understand that in this order, since the buyer was not home, it was not delivered to the address on file and was taken to the carrier branch. Being said this, the claim is valid based on that.
For future situations, if the buyer is not at home, you can:
- Set the order as undeliverable, inform the buyer and coordinate with the carrier to get the order back to you.
- Have a conversation with the buyer indicating the order cannot be delivered because they were not at home. If the buyer agrees to picking it up from another location, and you have that confirmation in the Buyer-Seller Messages, you will win the AtoZ Claim in case the buyer decides to present it.
- Have a conversation with the buyer indicating the order cannot be delivered because they were not at home. If the buyer agrees to leave the package at the door, and you have that confirmation in the Buyer-Seller Messages, you will win the AtoZ Claim in case the buyer decides to present it.
- Have a conversation with the buyer indicating the order cannot be delivered because they were not at home. If the buyer agrees to receive it on a different date, beyond the EDD, and you have that confirmation in the Buyer-Seller Messages, you will win the AtoZ Claim in case the buyer decides to present it.
Feel free to ask any other follow-up question if needed,
Jurgen
Seller_E4U8aNuzTRyGy
@Jurgen_Amazon I am not a party to this transaction but I am a seller.
I appreciate your detailed explanation of the process and your efforts to ensure clarity on this matter, these are important issues for all sellers to understand and address in order to be successful on Amazon.
However, I need to highlight that what you have suggested is not possible with both Canada Post and Purolator, our approved carriers.
Let me try to explain further:
Canada Post: According to their policy on signatures and identity services, if a recipient is not home to receive a package that requires a signature, it will be taken to the nearest Canada Post branch for pickup. This is in line with the policy outlined on their website.
Purolator: Purolator allows the receiver to authorize the delivery driver to leave a package without a signature, but only with a signed note posted at the delivery location. If the package requires a signature and the delivery is missed, the package will be held for pickup and this cannot be circumvented. This is clearly stated in their policy as well.
Additionally, buyers are under no obligation to respond to sellers' messages. This can be problematic in situations where:
The buyer is willfully engaging in fraudulent activity.
The buyer does not see the message.
The buyer has set their preferences to prevent seller messages from being received.
If Amazon lists a carrier as approved on their website, it should imply that the carrier's signature requirements are implicitly approved. Sellers cannot supersede carrier policy simply by stating that Amazon requires a different process.
Given these policies and buyer behaviors, it is not feasible to set the order as undeliverable or coordinate with the buyer to redirect the package to another location or leave it at the door unless the specific conditions mentioned by Purolator are met. This makes it challenging to reconcile these discrepancies and adhere to the process you've outlined.
Could you please provide further guidance on how to handle such situations? It seems that the current policies of our carriers might allow buyers to potentially exploit these rules and claim non-delivery, thus defrauding sellers. We want to ensure we are compliant with carrier policies while also protecting our business from fraudulent claims.
Thank you for your understanding and assistance in this matter.
Best regards,
Jurgen_Amazon
Hey @Seller_E4U8aNuzTRyGy
Thank you for such detailed explanation. It definitely provides us with more clarity on this topic and what roadblocks you face. I don't have an answer to your question at this moment, nevertheless, let me follow up with the team that reviews the AtoZ claims. They shared those best practices/suggestions, so I will get in contact with them, sharing these inputs and work together in finding solutions.
Please wait for me to get back to you with the answer.
Jurgen
Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ
@Jurgen_Amazon@Seller_E4U8aNuzTRyGy
Jurgen
I appreciate you comments but User_342817hefjth is 100% correct. There are no alternative delivery options for Canada post or Purolator if a customer is not home and a signature is required.
If the customer has refused to pick the item up from an alternative address we would have the option to redeliver and have the customer leave a note with the tracking and a signature and allowing the courier to leave the order with out the customer being present.
The second option would be the customer leaves the item at the courier's location and it is returned to sender after a period of time.
This particular situation does not take either of these examples into account as the customer got the pick up notice, drove to the pick up location, showed government id and signed for the package.
The couriers are very strict at making customers show ID and sign where required.
This package was picked up by the customer and then for some reason they decided they would make the A to Z claim. Amazon should not have automatically approved it based on the delivery location as we followed the correct procedure for securing the order and the customer did not contact us to voice their displeasure with picking it up.
We still believe Amazon should cover the cost of this claim, under good will at the very least. We as a high volume seller try to follow all of Amazon's policies but taking a $600 loss ($450 dollars at our cost plus shipping) is very discouraging.
Please do what you can to ask some one senior at a to z to examine this situation in its totality as we do not believe it was handled properly.
Thanks
Konquer Motorcycles
