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Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ

A to Z teams lack of training strikes again, $600 dollar lost is our reward.

Customer orders a $600 dollar item so we request a signature of course. Purolator tries to deliver but the customer is not home so the item is taken to a Purolator Agent and the customer is informed where they can pick it up.

Customer picks the item up, shows identification and signs for the package. A week later the customer files a claim that they did not get the item.

Should be an easy claim right? We have a signature.

A to Z claim grants the claim stating we did not deliver the item to the correct location because the customer picked it up and signed for it at the Purolator Agent.

The A to Z process is beyond frustrating, we do everything in our power properly and the customer decides they want the item for free and A to Z is happy to accommodate.

The order is 701-4510994-2560227 if a moderator has any feed back we would appreciate it as we are tire of getting product stolen with Amazon's assistance

Jason

Konquer Motorcycles.

257 views
19 replies
Manage buyer experience
Tags:A-to-z claims
90
Reply
user profile
Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ

A to Z teams lack of training strikes again, $600 dollar lost is our reward.

Customer orders a $600 dollar item so we request a signature of course. Purolator tries to deliver but the customer is not home so the item is taken to a Purolator Agent and the customer is informed where they can pick it up.

Customer picks the item up, shows identification and signs for the package. A week later the customer files a claim that they did not get the item.

Should be an easy claim right? We have a signature.

A to Z claim grants the claim stating we did not deliver the item to the correct location because the customer picked it up and signed for it at the Purolator Agent.

The A to Z process is beyond frustrating, we do everything in our power properly and the customer decides they want the item for free and A to Z is happy to accommodate.

The order is 701-4510994-2560227 if a moderator has any feed back we would appreciate it as we are tire of getting product stolen with Amazon's assistance

Jason

Konquer Motorcycles.

Manage buyer experience
Tags:A-to-z claims
90
257 views
19 replies
Reply
user profile
Seller_E4U8aNuzTRyGy
In reply to: Jurgen_Amazon’s post
Most helpful reply

@Jurgen_Amazon I am not a party to this transaction but I am a seller.

I appreciate your detailed explanation of the process and your efforts to ensure clarity on this matter, these are important issues for all sellers to understand and address in order to be successful on Amazon.

However, I need to highlight that what you have suggested is not possible with both Canada Post and Purolator, our approved carriers.

Let me try to explain further:

Canada Post: According to their policy on signatures and identity services, if a recipient is not home to receive a package that requires a signature, it will be taken to the nearest Canada Post branch for pickup. This is in line with the policy outlined on their website.

Purolator: Purolator allows the receiver to authorize the delivery driver to leave a package without a signature, but only with a signed note posted at the delivery location. If the package requires a signature and the delivery is missed, the package will be held for pickup and this cannot be circumvented. This is clearly stated in their policy as well.

Additionally, buyers are under no obligation to respond to sellers' messages. This can be problematic in situations where:

The buyer is willfully engaging in fraudulent activity.

The buyer does not see the message.

The buyer has set their preferences to prevent seller messages from being received.

If Amazon lists a carrier as approved on their website, it should imply that the carrier's signature requirements are implicitly approved. Sellers cannot supersede carrier policy simply by stating that Amazon requires a different process.

Given these policies and buyer behaviors, it is not feasible to set the order as undeliverable or coordinate with the buyer to redirect the package to another location or leave it at the door unless the specific conditions mentioned by Purolator are met. This makes it challenging to reconcile these discrepancies and adhere to the process you've outlined.

Could you please provide further guidance on how to handle such situations? It seems that the current policies of our carriers might allow buyers to potentially exploit these rules and claim non-delivery, thus defrauding sellers. We want to ensure we are compliant with carrier policies while also protecting our business from fraudulent claims.

Thank you for your understanding and assistance in this matter.

Best regards,

30
19 replies
user profile
Jurgen_Amazon
In reply to: Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ’s post

Hello @Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ,

Thank you for contacting Amazon Forums.

I have reviewed the details and escalated to the team in charge of further review. I will keep you posted as soon as they provide an answer.

Jurgen

00
user profile
Jurgen_Amazon
In reply to: Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ’s post

Hello @Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ,

Sharing with you the answer provided by the team that reviewed the escalation I made:

After reviewing your request, we have determined the seller will remain responsible for this claim associated to order # 701-4510994-2560227 based on the details and circumstances of this transaction. We cannot reverse our decision for this dispute because Seller did not fulfill the order to address we have on file. All orders must be shipped to the address provided by Amazon.

00
user profile
Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ
In reply to: Jurgen_Amazon’s post

Jurgen

@Jurgen_Amazon

The package was attempted to be delivered but the customer was not home to sign. The package was then taken to a Purolator depot and picked up, signed for and the customer showed ID.

Why does you team not listen to the facts of this delivery and instead hide behind the inaccurate claim this package was delivered to the wrong address.

IT WAS NOT DELIVERED. IT WAS PICKED UP AT THE PUROLATOR DEPOT

The customer went to the Purolator depot, showed ID and signed for the package. This type of transaction happens every day in Canada.

Please show me in Amazon's policies where it states that a product that a customer picks up from the courier's depot is not a legitimate delivery?

Your Team is treating this like the courier delivered it to an address that was not correct. That is not accurate.

We sent transcripts of our conversation with Purolator courier who explained the address it was delivered to is a Purolator depot. Purolator recently updated their tracking message to show customers where they can pick up and item that requires a signature as previously it was difficult to determine where to go for pick up.

Jason

10
user profile
Jurgen_Amazon
In reply to: Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ’s post

@Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ,

Let me try to explain the process, so we can be on the same page.

The order must be delivered within the Estimated Delivery Date (EDD) to the address on file. We do understand that in this order, since the buyer was not home, it was not delivered to the address on file and was taken to the carrier branch. Being said this, the claim is valid based on that.

For future situations, if the buyer is not at home, you can:

  1. Set the order as undeliverable, inform the buyer and coordinate with the carrier to get the order back to you.
  2. Have a conversation with the buyer indicating the order cannot be delivered because they were not at home. If the buyer agrees to picking it up from another location, and you have that confirmation in the Buyer-Seller Messages, you will win the AtoZ Claim in case the buyer decides to present it.
  3. Have a conversation with the buyer indicating the order cannot be delivered because they were not at home. If the buyer agrees to leave the package at the door, and you have that confirmation in the Buyer-Seller Messages, you will win the AtoZ Claim in case the buyer decides to present it.
  4. Have a conversation with the buyer indicating the order cannot be delivered because they were not at home. If the buyer agrees to receive it on a different date, beyond the EDD, and you have that confirmation in the Buyer-Seller Messages, you will win the AtoZ Claim in case the buyer decides to present it.

Feel free to ask any other follow-up question if needed,

Jurgen

00
user profile
Seller_E4U8aNuzTRyGy
In reply to: Jurgen_Amazon’s post
Most helpful reply

@Jurgen_Amazon I am not a party to this transaction but I am a seller.

I appreciate your detailed explanation of the process and your efforts to ensure clarity on this matter, these are important issues for all sellers to understand and address in order to be successful on Amazon.

However, I need to highlight that what you have suggested is not possible with both Canada Post and Purolator, our approved carriers.

Let me try to explain further:

Canada Post: According to their policy on signatures and identity services, if a recipient is not home to receive a package that requires a signature, it will be taken to the nearest Canada Post branch for pickup. This is in line with the policy outlined on their website.

Purolator: Purolator allows the receiver to authorize the delivery driver to leave a package without a signature, but only with a signed note posted at the delivery location. If the package requires a signature and the delivery is missed, the package will be held for pickup and this cannot be circumvented. This is clearly stated in their policy as well.

Additionally, buyers are under no obligation to respond to sellers' messages. This can be problematic in situations where:

The buyer is willfully engaging in fraudulent activity.

The buyer does not see the message.

The buyer has set their preferences to prevent seller messages from being received.

If Amazon lists a carrier as approved on their website, it should imply that the carrier's signature requirements are implicitly approved. Sellers cannot supersede carrier policy simply by stating that Amazon requires a different process.

Given these policies and buyer behaviors, it is not feasible to set the order as undeliverable or coordinate with the buyer to redirect the package to another location or leave it at the door unless the specific conditions mentioned by Purolator are met. This makes it challenging to reconcile these discrepancies and adhere to the process you've outlined.

Could you please provide further guidance on how to handle such situations? It seems that the current policies of our carriers might allow buyers to potentially exploit these rules and claim non-delivery, thus defrauding sellers. We want to ensure we are compliant with carrier policies while also protecting our business from fraudulent claims.

Thank you for your understanding and assistance in this matter.

Best regards,

30
user profile
Jurgen_Amazon
In reply to: Seller_E4U8aNuzTRyGy’s post

Hey @Seller_E4U8aNuzTRyGy

Thank you for such detailed explanation. It definitely provides us with more clarity on this topic and what roadblocks you face. I don't have an answer to your question at this moment, nevertheless, let me follow up with the team that reviews the AtoZ claims. They shared those best practices/suggestions, so I will get in contact with them, sharing these inputs and work together in finding solutions.

Please wait for me to get back to you with the answer.

Jurgen

00
user profile
Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ
In reply to: Jurgen_Amazon’s post

@Jurgen_Amazon@Seller_E4U8aNuzTRyGy

Jurgen

I appreciate you comments but User_342817hefjth is 100% correct. There are no alternative delivery options for Canada post or Purolator if a customer is not home and a signature is required.

If the customer has refused to pick the item up from an alternative address we would have the option to redeliver and have the customer leave a note with the tracking and a signature and allowing the courier to leave the order with out the customer being present.

The second option would be the customer leaves the item at the courier's location and it is returned to sender after a period of time.

This particular situation does not take either of these examples into account as the customer got the pick up notice, drove to the pick up location, showed government id and signed for the package.

The couriers are very strict at making customers show ID and sign where required.

This package was picked up by the customer and then for some reason they decided they would make the A to Z claim. Amazon should not have automatically approved it based on the delivery location as we followed the correct procedure for securing the order and the customer did not contact us to voice their displeasure with picking it up.

We still believe Amazon should cover the cost of this claim, under good will at the very least. We as a high volume seller try to follow all of Amazon's policies but taking a $600 loss ($450 dollars at our cost plus shipping) is very discouraging.

Please do what you can to ask some one senior at a to z to examine this situation in its totality as we do not believe it was handled properly.

Thanks

Konquer Motorcycles

10
user profile
Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ
In reply to: Jurgen_Amazon’s post

I know Amazon has already decided they are going to give my product to the customer for free no matter what information is provided but I want to be accurate for the record.

@jurgen we did not deliver the product to an address that is different from the one the customer provided. The delivery attempt was made, the customer was not home to sign for the package, the customer subsequently went to the Purolator depot as shown on the tracking summary and picked up and signed for the package.

IT WAS NOT DELIVERED TO THE WRONG ADDRESS AS YOU KEEP STATING.

It was held for pick up at a Purolator depot where the customer picked it up and signed for it.

Amazon is 100% incorrect on the facts of this delivery and the internal team appears to be unable to understand it was fulfilled to the address on file but when the customer is not home to sign it is then taken to the depot.

The tracking shows it was delivered to after being transferred to the Purolator shipping center and would be held for 5 days at the counter.

I wish someone from Amazon who take the time to reach out as it feels like I am speaking a different language. You have our phone number please call.

Purolator Tracking 608858648249

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 3:43 p.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC Shipment delivered

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 10:55 a.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC Available for pickup for 5 business days from arrival date at the counter

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 10:46 a.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC Transferring to Shipping Centre - please wait for further instructions

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 7:30 a.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC On vehicle for delivery

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 5:52 a.m. LANGLEY, BC Arrived at sort facility

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 4:15 p.m. LANGLEY, BC Shipment unavailable - En route to Purolator pickup location

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 12:38 p.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC Attempted delivery - receiver unavailable

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 9:23 a.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC On vehicle for delivery

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 8:54 a.m. LANGLEY, BC Arrived at sort facility

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 1:33 a.m. LANGLEY, BC Arrived at sort facility

Wed. July 3, 2024 - 3:13 p.m. RICHMOND, BC Arrived at sort facility

Wed. July 3, 2024 - 3:13 p.m. RICHMOND, BC Departed sort facility

Wed. July 3, 2024 - 9:14 a.m. RICHMOND, BC Arrived at sort facility

Wed. July 3, 2024 - 1:05 a.m. PUROLATOR Shipment created - final manifest received

Tue. July 2, 2024 - 6:31 p.m. CALGARY, AB Departed sort facility

Tue. July 2, 2024 - 6:30 p.m. CALGARY, AB Picked up by Purolator

Tue. July 2, 2024 - 1:10 p.m. PUROLATOR Shipment created - interim manifest received

10
user profile
Seller_E4U8aNuzTRyGy
In reply to: Jurgen_Amazon’s post

@Jurgen_Amazon

I appreciate your efforts in escalating this matter to the internal team. Could you please provide any feedback from them regarding my query?

It seems that the A-Z policy is not being consistently applied, as evidenced by the post titled "Another A-Z SCAM" resolved by @Lucre_Amzn , where evidence of delivery with signature at a Purolator pickup point was accepted by the A-Z team to refund the seller.

This discrepancy raises concerns about whether the A-Z team respects the approved carrier policies regarding signature requirements when evaluating claims. @Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ claim does not seem to be resolved as of now, although the evidence shared in this thread appears to be similar to the one in the post I referenced above; delivery with signature requirement at Purolator pickup point due to recipient missing delivery.

As sellers, it is crucial for us to understand whether the A-Z team will adhere to these carrier policies, which are intended to protect both the buyer and seller. I have previously provided a detailed explanation of the challenges we face due to the current policies. I would now appreciate a concrete response that addresses these concerns.

@Ricardo_Amazon has acknowledged the challenges that sellers face with A-Z claims saying "We are aware how painful A-to-Z claims are for sellers. We as Community Managers are actively working with our A-to-Z Escalations team in order to improve processes and make thinks easier for you all." A step forward would be the establishment of clearly defined policies that reflect the realities of carrier services and protect sellers from fraudulent claims.

Thank you for your continued attention to this matter.

20
user profile
Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ
In reply to: Seller_E4U8aNuzTRyGy’s post

Here is an update on my case.... The tracking shows the package was taken to the couriers pick up location. The final tracking and signature show the address of the Purolator depot.

A to Z is using that as justification to claim the package was not delivered to the correct location as the Purolator tracking shows the item was delivered to the pick up location (not the customers address).

We have had customers pick up hundreds of items at Purolator depots or agents in the past when signatures are required and they were not home for the delivery. Normally they do not specify the address of the depot which is part of the confusion by the A to Z team. I still think this was a mistake on behalf of the A to Z team but as usual they are not willing to consider they made an error.

Here is the tracking information off the Purolator website, I am exhausted by this process and Amazon's inability to have a manager review what is a refiund in error.

If you google the address it was delivered to in the tracking it shows a picture of a Purolator agent. (The business is called Quality cell phone repair and if you zoom in on the picture it shows the Purolator agent decal on the window).

If you look on the Purolator website under locations the address below is listed as a Purolator agent/ depot.

22209 DEWDNEY TRUNK ROAD,V2X3H8

(From the Purolator website)

Quality Cell Phone Repair

22209 Dewdney Trunk RD

Maple Ridge BC, V2X 3H8

778-992-5992

Closed Now

Click to see Last drop offs:

Additional Information:

Package and Label free QR code returns services NOT AVAILABLE. Only pre-paid package drop-offs or account-based shipments are accepted.

(Tracking info with a picture of the signature which I could not paste on here)

Shipment: 608858648249

Picked Up

Delivery Date

Fri. July 5, 2024 3:43 p.m.

Last updated: Fri. July 5, 2024

Receiver's Signature Receiver's Signature

Received By: C BXXXXXXXri pi

Shipment Details

Origin

CALGARY, AB, CA

Destination

MAPLE RIDGE, BC, CA

References

164429001

Service

Purolator Ground

Est. Weight

1 lb

Shipment Date

Tue. July 2, 2024

History

Date City Description

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 3:43 p.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC Shipment delivered to C BoXXXXXXXri pi at: 22209 DEWDNEY TRUNK ROAD,V2X3H8

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 10:55 a.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC Available for pickup for 5 business days from arrival date at the counter

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 10:46 a.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC Transferring to Shipping Centre - please wait for further instructions

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 7:30 a.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC On vehicle for delivery

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 5:52 a.m. LANGLEY, BC Arrived at sort facility

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 4:15 p.m. LANGLEY, BC Shipment unavailable - En route to Purolator pickup location

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 12:38 p.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC Attempted delivery - receiver unavailable

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 9:23 a.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC On vehicle for delivery

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 8:54 a.m. LANGLEY, BC Arrived at sort facility

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 1:33 a.m. LANGLEY, BC Arrived at sort facility

Wed. July 3, 2024 - 3:13 p.m. RICHMOND, BC Arrived at sort facility

Wed. July 3, 2024 - 3:13 p.m. RICHMOND, BC Departed sort facility

Wed. July 3, 2024 - 9:14 a.m. RICHMOND, BC Arrived at sort facility

Wed. July 3, 2024 - 1:05 a.m. PUROLATOR Shipment created - final manifest received

Tue. July 2, 2024 - 6:31 p.m. CALGARY, AB Departed sort facility

Tue. July 2, 2024 - 6:30 p.m. CALGARY, AB Picked up by Purolator at CALGARY,AB

Tue. July 2, 2024 - 1:10 p.m. PUROLATOR Shipment created - interim manifest received

10
user profile
Seller_HY11pBXR5oxuG
In reply to: Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ’s post

Same old A to Z team nonsense. It all depends on the person you get on the A to Z team. Sometimes they know how it is done and other times you get this nonsense. We have seen it all over the years.

30
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Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ

A to Z teams lack of training strikes again, $600 dollar lost is our reward.

Customer orders a $600 dollar item so we request a signature of course. Purolator tries to deliver but the customer is not home so the item is taken to a Purolator Agent and the customer is informed where they can pick it up.

Customer picks the item up, shows identification and signs for the package. A week later the customer files a claim that they did not get the item.

Should be an easy claim right? We have a signature.

A to Z claim grants the claim stating we did not deliver the item to the correct location because the customer picked it up and signed for it at the Purolator Agent.

The A to Z process is beyond frustrating, we do everything in our power properly and the customer decides they want the item for free and A to Z is happy to accommodate.

The order is 701-4510994-2560227 if a moderator has any feed back we would appreciate it as we are tire of getting product stolen with Amazon's assistance

Jason

Konquer Motorcycles.

257 views
19 replies
Manage buyer experience
Tags:A-to-z claims
90
Reply
user profile
Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ

A to Z teams lack of training strikes again, $600 dollar lost is our reward.

Customer orders a $600 dollar item so we request a signature of course. Purolator tries to deliver but the customer is not home so the item is taken to a Purolator Agent and the customer is informed where they can pick it up.

Customer picks the item up, shows identification and signs for the package. A week later the customer files a claim that they did not get the item.

Should be an easy claim right? We have a signature.

A to Z claim grants the claim stating we did not deliver the item to the correct location because the customer picked it up and signed for it at the Purolator Agent.

The A to Z process is beyond frustrating, we do everything in our power properly and the customer decides they want the item for free and A to Z is happy to accommodate.

The order is 701-4510994-2560227 if a moderator has any feed back we would appreciate it as we are tire of getting product stolen with Amazon's assistance

Jason

Konquer Motorcycles.

Manage buyer experience
Tags:A-to-z claims
90
257 views
19 replies
Reply
user profile

A to Z teams lack of training strikes again, $600 dollar lost is our reward.

by Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ

Customer orders a $600 dollar item so we request a signature of course. Purolator tries to deliver but the customer is not home so the item is taken to a Purolator Agent and the customer is informed where they can pick it up.

Customer picks the item up, shows identification and signs for the package. A week later the customer files a claim that they did not get the item.

Should be an easy claim right? We have a signature.

A to Z claim grants the claim stating we did not deliver the item to the correct location because the customer picked it up and signed for it at the Purolator Agent.

The A to Z process is beyond frustrating, we do everything in our power properly and the customer decides they want the item for free and A to Z is happy to accommodate.

The order is 701-4510994-2560227 if a moderator has any feed back we would appreciate it as we are tire of getting product stolen with Amazon's assistance

Jason

Konquer Motorcycles.

Manage buyer experience
Tags:A-to-z claims
90
257 views
19 replies
Reply
user profile
Seller_E4U8aNuzTRyGy
In reply to: Jurgen_Amazon’s post
Most helpful reply

@Jurgen_Amazon I am not a party to this transaction but I am a seller.

I appreciate your detailed explanation of the process and your efforts to ensure clarity on this matter, these are important issues for all sellers to understand and address in order to be successful on Amazon.

However, I need to highlight that what you have suggested is not possible with both Canada Post and Purolator, our approved carriers.

Let me try to explain further:

Canada Post: According to their policy on signatures and identity services, if a recipient is not home to receive a package that requires a signature, it will be taken to the nearest Canada Post branch for pickup. This is in line with the policy outlined on their website.

Purolator: Purolator allows the receiver to authorize the delivery driver to leave a package without a signature, but only with a signed note posted at the delivery location. If the package requires a signature and the delivery is missed, the package will be held for pickup and this cannot be circumvented. This is clearly stated in their policy as well.

Additionally, buyers are under no obligation to respond to sellers' messages. This can be problematic in situations where:

The buyer is willfully engaging in fraudulent activity.

The buyer does not see the message.

The buyer has set their preferences to prevent seller messages from being received.

If Amazon lists a carrier as approved on their website, it should imply that the carrier's signature requirements are implicitly approved. Sellers cannot supersede carrier policy simply by stating that Amazon requires a different process.

Given these policies and buyer behaviors, it is not feasible to set the order as undeliverable or coordinate with the buyer to redirect the package to another location or leave it at the door unless the specific conditions mentioned by Purolator are met. This makes it challenging to reconcile these discrepancies and adhere to the process you've outlined.

Could you please provide further guidance on how to handle such situations? It seems that the current policies of our carriers might allow buyers to potentially exploit these rules and claim non-delivery, thus defrauding sellers. We want to ensure we are compliant with carrier policies while also protecting our business from fraudulent claims.

Thank you for your understanding and assistance in this matter.

Best regards,

30
user profile
Seller_E4U8aNuzTRyGy
In reply to: Jurgen_Amazon’s post
Most helpful reply

@Jurgen_Amazon I am not a party to this transaction but I am a seller.

I appreciate your detailed explanation of the process and your efforts to ensure clarity on this matter, these are important issues for all sellers to understand and address in order to be successful on Amazon.

However, I need to highlight that what you have suggested is not possible with both Canada Post and Purolator, our approved carriers.

Let me try to explain further:

Canada Post: According to their policy on signatures and identity services, if a recipient is not home to receive a package that requires a signature, it will be taken to the nearest Canada Post branch for pickup. This is in line with the policy outlined on their website.

Purolator: Purolator allows the receiver to authorize the delivery driver to leave a package without a signature, but only with a signed note posted at the delivery location. If the package requires a signature and the delivery is missed, the package will be held for pickup and this cannot be circumvented. This is clearly stated in their policy as well.

Additionally, buyers are under no obligation to respond to sellers' messages. This can be problematic in situations where:

The buyer is willfully engaging in fraudulent activity.

The buyer does not see the message.

The buyer has set their preferences to prevent seller messages from being received.

If Amazon lists a carrier as approved on their website, it should imply that the carrier's signature requirements are implicitly approved. Sellers cannot supersede carrier policy simply by stating that Amazon requires a different process.

Given these policies and buyer behaviors, it is not feasible to set the order as undeliverable or coordinate with the buyer to redirect the package to another location or leave it at the door unless the specific conditions mentioned by Purolator are met. This makes it challenging to reconcile these discrepancies and adhere to the process you've outlined.

Could you please provide further guidance on how to handle such situations? It seems that the current policies of our carriers might allow buyers to potentially exploit these rules and claim non-delivery, thus defrauding sellers. We want to ensure we are compliant with carrier policies while also protecting our business from fraudulent claims.

Thank you for your understanding and assistance in this matter.

Best regards,

30
user profile
Seller_E4U8aNuzTRyGy
In reply to: Jurgen_Amazon’s post
Most helpful reply

@Jurgen_Amazon I am not a party to this transaction but I am a seller.

I appreciate your detailed explanation of the process and your efforts to ensure clarity on this matter, these are important issues for all sellers to understand and address in order to be successful on Amazon.

However, I need to highlight that what you have suggested is not possible with both Canada Post and Purolator, our approved carriers.

Let me try to explain further:

Canada Post: According to their policy on signatures and identity services, if a recipient is not home to receive a package that requires a signature, it will be taken to the nearest Canada Post branch for pickup. This is in line with the policy outlined on their website.

Purolator: Purolator allows the receiver to authorize the delivery driver to leave a package without a signature, but only with a signed note posted at the delivery location. If the package requires a signature and the delivery is missed, the package will be held for pickup and this cannot be circumvented. This is clearly stated in their policy as well.

Additionally, buyers are under no obligation to respond to sellers' messages. This can be problematic in situations where:

The buyer is willfully engaging in fraudulent activity.

The buyer does not see the message.

The buyer has set their preferences to prevent seller messages from being received.

If Amazon lists a carrier as approved on their website, it should imply that the carrier's signature requirements are implicitly approved. Sellers cannot supersede carrier policy simply by stating that Amazon requires a different process.

Given these policies and buyer behaviors, it is not feasible to set the order as undeliverable or coordinate with the buyer to redirect the package to another location or leave it at the door unless the specific conditions mentioned by Purolator are met. This makes it challenging to reconcile these discrepancies and adhere to the process you've outlined.

Could you please provide further guidance on how to handle such situations? It seems that the current policies of our carriers might allow buyers to potentially exploit these rules and claim non-delivery, thus defrauding sellers. We want to ensure we are compliant with carrier policies while also protecting our business from fraudulent claims.

Thank you for your understanding and assistance in this matter.

Best regards,

30
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Jurgen_Amazon
In reply to: Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ’s post

Hello @Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ,

Thank you for contacting Amazon Forums.

I have reviewed the details and escalated to the team in charge of further review. I will keep you posted as soon as they provide an answer.

Jurgen

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Jurgen_Amazon
In reply to: Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ’s post

Hello @Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ,

Sharing with you the answer provided by the team that reviewed the escalation I made:

After reviewing your request, we have determined the seller will remain responsible for this claim associated to order # 701-4510994-2560227 based on the details and circumstances of this transaction. We cannot reverse our decision for this dispute because Seller did not fulfill the order to address we have on file. All orders must be shipped to the address provided by Amazon.

00
user profile
Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ
In reply to: Jurgen_Amazon’s post

Jurgen

@Jurgen_Amazon

The package was attempted to be delivered but the customer was not home to sign. The package was then taken to a Purolator depot and picked up, signed for and the customer showed ID.

Why does you team not listen to the facts of this delivery and instead hide behind the inaccurate claim this package was delivered to the wrong address.

IT WAS NOT DELIVERED. IT WAS PICKED UP AT THE PUROLATOR DEPOT

The customer went to the Purolator depot, showed ID and signed for the package. This type of transaction happens every day in Canada.

Please show me in Amazon's policies where it states that a product that a customer picks up from the courier's depot is not a legitimate delivery?

Your Team is treating this like the courier delivered it to an address that was not correct. That is not accurate.

We sent transcripts of our conversation with Purolator courier who explained the address it was delivered to is a Purolator depot. Purolator recently updated their tracking message to show customers where they can pick up and item that requires a signature as previously it was difficult to determine where to go for pick up.

Jason

10
user profile
Jurgen_Amazon
In reply to: Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ’s post

@Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ,

Let me try to explain the process, so we can be on the same page.

The order must be delivered within the Estimated Delivery Date (EDD) to the address on file. We do understand that in this order, since the buyer was not home, it was not delivered to the address on file and was taken to the carrier branch. Being said this, the claim is valid based on that.

For future situations, if the buyer is not at home, you can:

  1. Set the order as undeliverable, inform the buyer and coordinate with the carrier to get the order back to you.
  2. Have a conversation with the buyer indicating the order cannot be delivered because they were not at home. If the buyer agrees to picking it up from another location, and you have that confirmation in the Buyer-Seller Messages, you will win the AtoZ Claim in case the buyer decides to present it.
  3. Have a conversation with the buyer indicating the order cannot be delivered because they were not at home. If the buyer agrees to leave the package at the door, and you have that confirmation in the Buyer-Seller Messages, you will win the AtoZ Claim in case the buyer decides to present it.
  4. Have a conversation with the buyer indicating the order cannot be delivered because they were not at home. If the buyer agrees to receive it on a different date, beyond the EDD, and you have that confirmation in the Buyer-Seller Messages, you will win the AtoZ Claim in case the buyer decides to present it.

Feel free to ask any other follow-up question if needed,

Jurgen

00
user profile
Seller_E4U8aNuzTRyGy
In reply to: Jurgen_Amazon’s post
Most helpful reply

@Jurgen_Amazon I am not a party to this transaction but I am a seller.

I appreciate your detailed explanation of the process and your efforts to ensure clarity on this matter, these are important issues for all sellers to understand and address in order to be successful on Amazon.

However, I need to highlight that what you have suggested is not possible with both Canada Post and Purolator, our approved carriers.

Let me try to explain further:

Canada Post: According to their policy on signatures and identity services, if a recipient is not home to receive a package that requires a signature, it will be taken to the nearest Canada Post branch for pickup. This is in line with the policy outlined on their website.

Purolator: Purolator allows the receiver to authorize the delivery driver to leave a package without a signature, but only with a signed note posted at the delivery location. If the package requires a signature and the delivery is missed, the package will be held for pickup and this cannot be circumvented. This is clearly stated in their policy as well.

Additionally, buyers are under no obligation to respond to sellers' messages. This can be problematic in situations where:

The buyer is willfully engaging in fraudulent activity.

The buyer does not see the message.

The buyer has set their preferences to prevent seller messages from being received.

If Amazon lists a carrier as approved on their website, it should imply that the carrier's signature requirements are implicitly approved. Sellers cannot supersede carrier policy simply by stating that Amazon requires a different process.

Given these policies and buyer behaviors, it is not feasible to set the order as undeliverable or coordinate with the buyer to redirect the package to another location or leave it at the door unless the specific conditions mentioned by Purolator are met. This makes it challenging to reconcile these discrepancies and adhere to the process you've outlined.

Could you please provide further guidance on how to handle such situations? It seems that the current policies of our carriers might allow buyers to potentially exploit these rules and claim non-delivery, thus defrauding sellers. We want to ensure we are compliant with carrier policies while also protecting our business from fraudulent claims.

Thank you for your understanding and assistance in this matter.

Best regards,

30
user profile
Jurgen_Amazon
In reply to: Seller_E4U8aNuzTRyGy’s post

Hey @Seller_E4U8aNuzTRyGy

Thank you for such detailed explanation. It definitely provides us with more clarity on this topic and what roadblocks you face. I don't have an answer to your question at this moment, nevertheless, let me follow up with the team that reviews the AtoZ claims. They shared those best practices/suggestions, so I will get in contact with them, sharing these inputs and work together in finding solutions.

Please wait for me to get back to you with the answer.

Jurgen

00
user profile
Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ
In reply to: Jurgen_Amazon’s post

@Jurgen_Amazon@Seller_E4U8aNuzTRyGy

Jurgen

I appreciate you comments but User_342817hefjth is 100% correct. There are no alternative delivery options for Canada post or Purolator if a customer is not home and a signature is required.

If the customer has refused to pick the item up from an alternative address we would have the option to redeliver and have the customer leave a note with the tracking and a signature and allowing the courier to leave the order with out the customer being present.

The second option would be the customer leaves the item at the courier's location and it is returned to sender after a period of time.

This particular situation does not take either of these examples into account as the customer got the pick up notice, drove to the pick up location, showed government id and signed for the package.

The couriers are very strict at making customers show ID and sign where required.

This package was picked up by the customer and then for some reason they decided they would make the A to Z claim. Amazon should not have automatically approved it based on the delivery location as we followed the correct procedure for securing the order and the customer did not contact us to voice their displeasure with picking it up.

We still believe Amazon should cover the cost of this claim, under good will at the very least. We as a high volume seller try to follow all of Amazon's policies but taking a $600 loss ($450 dollars at our cost plus shipping) is very discouraging.

Please do what you can to ask some one senior at a to z to examine this situation in its totality as we do not believe it was handled properly.

Thanks

Konquer Motorcycles

10
user profile
Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ
In reply to: Jurgen_Amazon’s post

I know Amazon has already decided they are going to give my product to the customer for free no matter what information is provided but I want to be accurate for the record.

@jurgen we did not deliver the product to an address that is different from the one the customer provided. The delivery attempt was made, the customer was not home to sign for the package, the customer subsequently went to the Purolator depot as shown on the tracking summary and picked up and signed for the package.

IT WAS NOT DELIVERED TO THE WRONG ADDRESS AS YOU KEEP STATING.

It was held for pick up at a Purolator depot where the customer picked it up and signed for it.

Amazon is 100% incorrect on the facts of this delivery and the internal team appears to be unable to understand it was fulfilled to the address on file but when the customer is not home to sign it is then taken to the depot.

The tracking shows it was delivered to after being transferred to the Purolator shipping center and would be held for 5 days at the counter.

I wish someone from Amazon who take the time to reach out as it feels like I am speaking a different language. You have our phone number please call.

Purolator Tracking 608858648249

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 3:43 p.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC Shipment delivered

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 10:55 a.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC Available for pickup for 5 business days from arrival date at the counter

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 10:46 a.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC Transferring to Shipping Centre - please wait for further instructions

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 7:30 a.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC On vehicle for delivery

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 5:52 a.m. LANGLEY, BC Arrived at sort facility

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 4:15 p.m. LANGLEY, BC Shipment unavailable - En route to Purolator pickup location

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 12:38 p.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC Attempted delivery - receiver unavailable

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 9:23 a.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC On vehicle for delivery

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 8:54 a.m. LANGLEY, BC Arrived at sort facility

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 1:33 a.m. LANGLEY, BC Arrived at sort facility

Wed. July 3, 2024 - 3:13 p.m. RICHMOND, BC Arrived at sort facility

Wed. July 3, 2024 - 3:13 p.m. RICHMOND, BC Departed sort facility

Wed. July 3, 2024 - 9:14 a.m. RICHMOND, BC Arrived at sort facility

Wed. July 3, 2024 - 1:05 a.m. PUROLATOR Shipment created - final manifest received

Tue. July 2, 2024 - 6:31 p.m. CALGARY, AB Departed sort facility

Tue. July 2, 2024 - 6:30 p.m. CALGARY, AB Picked up by Purolator

Tue. July 2, 2024 - 1:10 p.m. PUROLATOR Shipment created - interim manifest received

10
user profile
Seller_E4U8aNuzTRyGy
In reply to: Jurgen_Amazon’s post

@Jurgen_Amazon

I appreciate your efforts in escalating this matter to the internal team. Could you please provide any feedback from them regarding my query?

It seems that the A-Z policy is not being consistently applied, as evidenced by the post titled "Another A-Z SCAM" resolved by @Lucre_Amzn , where evidence of delivery with signature at a Purolator pickup point was accepted by the A-Z team to refund the seller.

This discrepancy raises concerns about whether the A-Z team respects the approved carrier policies regarding signature requirements when evaluating claims. @Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ claim does not seem to be resolved as of now, although the evidence shared in this thread appears to be similar to the one in the post I referenced above; delivery with signature requirement at Purolator pickup point due to recipient missing delivery.

As sellers, it is crucial for us to understand whether the A-Z team will adhere to these carrier policies, which are intended to protect both the buyer and seller. I have previously provided a detailed explanation of the challenges we face due to the current policies. I would now appreciate a concrete response that addresses these concerns.

@Ricardo_Amazon has acknowledged the challenges that sellers face with A-Z claims saying "We are aware how painful A-to-Z claims are for sellers. We as Community Managers are actively working with our A-to-Z Escalations team in order to improve processes and make thinks easier for you all." A step forward would be the establishment of clearly defined policies that reflect the realities of carrier services and protect sellers from fraudulent claims.

Thank you for your continued attention to this matter.

20
user profile
Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ
In reply to: Seller_E4U8aNuzTRyGy’s post

Here is an update on my case.... The tracking shows the package was taken to the couriers pick up location. The final tracking and signature show the address of the Purolator depot.

A to Z is using that as justification to claim the package was not delivered to the correct location as the Purolator tracking shows the item was delivered to the pick up location (not the customers address).

We have had customers pick up hundreds of items at Purolator depots or agents in the past when signatures are required and they were not home for the delivery. Normally they do not specify the address of the depot which is part of the confusion by the A to Z team. I still think this was a mistake on behalf of the A to Z team but as usual they are not willing to consider they made an error.

Here is the tracking information off the Purolator website, I am exhausted by this process and Amazon's inability to have a manager review what is a refiund in error.

If you google the address it was delivered to in the tracking it shows a picture of a Purolator agent. (The business is called Quality cell phone repair and if you zoom in on the picture it shows the Purolator agent decal on the window).

If you look on the Purolator website under locations the address below is listed as a Purolator agent/ depot.

22209 DEWDNEY TRUNK ROAD,V2X3H8

(From the Purolator website)

Quality Cell Phone Repair

22209 Dewdney Trunk RD

Maple Ridge BC, V2X 3H8

778-992-5992

Closed Now

Click to see Last drop offs:

Additional Information:

Package and Label free QR code returns services NOT AVAILABLE. Only pre-paid package drop-offs or account-based shipments are accepted.

(Tracking info with a picture of the signature which I could not paste on here)

Shipment: 608858648249

Picked Up

Delivery Date

Fri. July 5, 2024 3:43 p.m.

Last updated: Fri. July 5, 2024

Receiver's Signature Receiver's Signature

Received By: C BXXXXXXXri pi

Shipment Details

Origin

CALGARY, AB, CA

Destination

MAPLE RIDGE, BC, CA

References

164429001

Service

Purolator Ground

Est. Weight

1 lb

Shipment Date

Tue. July 2, 2024

History

Date City Description

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 3:43 p.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC Shipment delivered to C BoXXXXXXXri pi at: 22209 DEWDNEY TRUNK ROAD,V2X3H8

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 10:55 a.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC Available for pickup for 5 business days from arrival date at the counter

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 10:46 a.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC Transferring to Shipping Centre - please wait for further instructions

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 7:30 a.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC On vehicle for delivery

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 5:52 a.m. LANGLEY, BC Arrived at sort facility

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 4:15 p.m. LANGLEY, BC Shipment unavailable - En route to Purolator pickup location

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 12:38 p.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC Attempted delivery - receiver unavailable

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 9:23 a.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC On vehicle for delivery

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 8:54 a.m. LANGLEY, BC Arrived at sort facility

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 1:33 a.m. LANGLEY, BC Arrived at sort facility

Wed. July 3, 2024 - 3:13 p.m. RICHMOND, BC Arrived at sort facility

Wed. July 3, 2024 - 3:13 p.m. RICHMOND, BC Departed sort facility

Wed. July 3, 2024 - 9:14 a.m. RICHMOND, BC Arrived at sort facility

Wed. July 3, 2024 - 1:05 a.m. PUROLATOR Shipment created - final manifest received

Tue. July 2, 2024 - 6:31 p.m. CALGARY, AB Departed sort facility

Tue. July 2, 2024 - 6:30 p.m. CALGARY, AB Picked up by Purolator at CALGARY,AB

Tue. July 2, 2024 - 1:10 p.m. PUROLATOR Shipment created - interim manifest received

10
user profile
Seller_HY11pBXR5oxuG
In reply to: Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ’s post

Same old A to Z team nonsense. It all depends on the person you get on the A to Z team. Sometimes they know how it is done and other times you get this nonsense. We have seen it all over the years.

30
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Jurgen_Amazon
In reply to: Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ’s post

Hello @Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ,

Thank you for contacting Amazon Forums.

I have reviewed the details and escalated to the team in charge of further review. I will keep you posted as soon as they provide an answer.

Jurgen

00
user profile
Jurgen_Amazon
In reply to: Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ’s post

Hello @Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ,

Thank you for contacting Amazon Forums.

I have reviewed the details and escalated to the team in charge of further review. I will keep you posted as soon as they provide an answer.

Jurgen

00
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Jurgen_Amazon
In reply to: Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ’s post

Hello @Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ,

Sharing with you the answer provided by the team that reviewed the escalation I made:

After reviewing your request, we have determined the seller will remain responsible for this claim associated to order # 701-4510994-2560227 based on the details and circumstances of this transaction. We cannot reverse our decision for this dispute because Seller did not fulfill the order to address we have on file. All orders must be shipped to the address provided by Amazon.

00
user profile
Jurgen_Amazon
In reply to: Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ’s post

Hello @Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ,

Sharing with you the answer provided by the team that reviewed the escalation I made:

After reviewing your request, we have determined the seller will remain responsible for this claim associated to order # 701-4510994-2560227 based on the details and circumstances of this transaction. We cannot reverse our decision for this dispute because Seller did not fulfill the order to address we have on file. All orders must be shipped to the address provided by Amazon.

00
Reply
user profile
Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ
In reply to: Jurgen_Amazon’s post

Jurgen

@Jurgen_Amazon

The package was attempted to be delivered but the customer was not home to sign. The package was then taken to a Purolator depot and picked up, signed for and the customer showed ID.

Why does you team not listen to the facts of this delivery and instead hide behind the inaccurate claim this package was delivered to the wrong address.

IT WAS NOT DELIVERED. IT WAS PICKED UP AT THE PUROLATOR DEPOT

The customer went to the Purolator depot, showed ID and signed for the package. This type of transaction happens every day in Canada.

Please show me in Amazon's policies where it states that a product that a customer picks up from the courier's depot is not a legitimate delivery?

Your Team is treating this like the courier delivered it to an address that was not correct. That is not accurate.

We sent transcripts of our conversation with Purolator courier who explained the address it was delivered to is a Purolator depot. Purolator recently updated their tracking message to show customers where they can pick up and item that requires a signature as previously it was difficult to determine where to go for pick up.

Jason

10
user profile
Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ
In reply to: Jurgen_Amazon’s post

Jurgen

@Jurgen_Amazon

The package was attempted to be delivered but the customer was not home to sign. The package was then taken to a Purolator depot and picked up, signed for and the customer showed ID.

Why does you team not listen to the facts of this delivery and instead hide behind the inaccurate claim this package was delivered to the wrong address.

IT WAS NOT DELIVERED. IT WAS PICKED UP AT THE PUROLATOR DEPOT

The customer went to the Purolator depot, showed ID and signed for the package. This type of transaction happens every day in Canada.

Please show me in Amazon's policies where it states that a product that a customer picks up from the courier's depot is not a legitimate delivery?

Your Team is treating this like the courier delivered it to an address that was not correct. That is not accurate.

We sent transcripts of our conversation with Purolator courier who explained the address it was delivered to is a Purolator depot. Purolator recently updated their tracking message to show customers where they can pick up and item that requires a signature as previously it was difficult to determine where to go for pick up.

Jason

10
Reply
user profile
Jurgen_Amazon
In reply to: Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ’s post

@Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ,

Let me try to explain the process, so we can be on the same page.

The order must be delivered within the Estimated Delivery Date (EDD) to the address on file. We do understand that in this order, since the buyer was not home, it was not delivered to the address on file and was taken to the carrier branch. Being said this, the claim is valid based on that.

For future situations, if the buyer is not at home, you can:

  1. Set the order as undeliverable, inform the buyer and coordinate with the carrier to get the order back to you.
  2. Have a conversation with the buyer indicating the order cannot be delivered because they were not at home. If the buyer agrees to picking it up from another location, and you have that confirmation in the Buyer-Seller Messages, you will win the AtoZ Claim in case the buyer decides to present it.
  3. Have a conversation with the buyer indicating the order cannot be delivered because they were not at home. If the buyer agrees to leave the package at the door, and you have that confirmation in the Buyer-Seller Messages, you will win the AtoZ Claim in case the buyer decides to present it.
  4. Have a conversation with the buyer indicating the order cannot be delivered because they were not at home. If the buyer agrees to receive it on a different date, beyond the EDD, and you have that confirmation in the Buyer-Seller Messages, you will win the AtoZ Claim in case the buyer decides to present it.

Feel free to ask any other follow-up question if needed,

Jurgen

00
user profile
Jurgen_Amazon
In reply to: Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ’s post

@Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ,

Let me try to explain the process, so we can be on the same page.

The order must be delivered within the Estimated Delivery Date (EDD) to the address on file. We do understand that in this order, since the buyer was not home, it was not delivered to the address on file and was taken to the carrier branch. Being said this, the claim is valid based on that.

For future situations, if the buyer is not at home, you can:

  1. Set the order as undeliverable, inform the buyer and coordinate with the carrier to get the order back to you.
  2. Have a conversation with the buyer indicating the order cannot be delivered because they were not at home. If the buyer agrees to picking it up from another location, and you have that confirmation in the Buyer-Seller Messages, you will win the AtoZ Claim in case the buyer decides to present it.
  3. Have a conversation with the buyer indicating the order cannot be delivered because they were not at home. If the buyer agrees to leave the package at the door, and you have that confirmation in the Buyer-Seller Messages, you will win the AtoZ Claim in case the buyer decides to present it.
  4. Have a conversation with the buyer indicating the order cannot be delivered because they were not at home. If the buyer agrees to receive it on a different date, beyond the EDD, and you have that confirmation in the Buyer-Seller Messages, you will win the AtoZ Claim in case the buyer decides to present it.

Feel free to ask any other follow-up question if needed,

Jurgen

00
Reply
user profile
Seller_E4U8aNuzTRyGy
In reply to: Jurgen_Amazon’s post
Most helpful reply

@Jurgen_Amazon I am not a party to this transaction but I am a seller.

I appreciate your detailed explanation of the process and your efforts to ensure clarity on this matter, these are important issues for all sellers to understand and address in order to be successful on Amazon.

However, I need to highlight that what you have suggested is not possible with both Canada Post and Purolator, our approved carriers.

Let me try to explain further:

Canada Post: According to their policy on signatures and identity services, if a recipient is not home to receive a package that requires a signature, it will be taken to the nearest Canada Post branch for pickup. This is in line with the policy outlined on their website.

Purolator: Purolator allows the receiver to authorize the delivery driver to leave a package without a signature, but only with a signed note posted at the delivery location. If the package requires a signature and the delivery is missed, the package will be held for pickup and this cannot be circumvented. This is clearly stated in their policy as well.

Additionally, buyers are under no obligation to respond to sellers' messages. This can be problematic in situations where:

The buyer is willfully engaging in fraudulent activity.

The buyer does not see the message.

The buyer has set their preferences to prevent seller messages from being received.

If Amazon lists a carrier as approved on their website, it should imply that the carrier's signature requirements are implicitly approved. Sellers cannot supersede carrier policy simply by stating that Amazon requires a different process.

Given these policies and buyer behaviors, it is not feasible to set the order as undeliverable or coordinate with the buyer to redirect the package to another location or leave it at the door unless the specific conditions mentioned by Purolator are met. This makes it challenging to reconcile these discrepancies and adhere to the process you've outlined.

Could you please provide further guidance on how to handle such situations? It seems that the current policies of our carriers might allow buyers to potentially exploit these rules and claim non-delivery, thus defrauding sellers. We want to ensure we are compliant with carrier policies while also protecting our business from fraudulent claims.

Thank you for your understanding and assistance in this matter.

Best regards,

30
user profile
Seller_E4U8aNuzTRyGy
In reply to: Jurgen_Amazon’s post
Most helpful reply

@Jurgen_Amazon I am not a party to this transaction but I am a seller.

I appreciate your detailed explanation of the process and your efforts to ensure clarity on this matter, these are important issues for all sellers to understand and address in order to be successful on Amazon.

However, I need to highlight that what you have suggested is not possible with both Canada Post and Purolator, our approved carriers.

Let me try to explain further:

Canada Post: According to their policy on signatures and identity services, if a recipient is not home to receive a package that requires a signature, it will be taken to the nearest Canada Post branch for pickup. This is in line with the policy outlined on their website.

Purolator: Purolator allows the receiver to authorize the delivery driver to leave a package without a signature, but only with a signed note posted at the delivery location. If the package requires a signature and the delivery is missed, the package will be held for pickup and this cannot be circumvented. This is clearly stated in their policy as well.

Additionally, buyers are under no obligation to respond to sellers' messages. This can be problematic in situations where:

The buyer is willfully engaging in fraudulent activity.

The buyer does not see the message.

The buyer has set their preferences to prevent seller messages from being received.

If Amazon lists a carrier as approved on their website, it should imply that the carrier's signature requirements are implicitly approved. Sellers cannot supersede carrier policy simply by stating that Amazon requires a different process.

Given these policies and buyer behaviors, it is not feasible to set the order as undeliverable or coordinate with the buyer to redirect the package to another location or leave it at the door unless the specific conditions mentioned by Purolator are met. This makes it challenging to reconcile these discrepancies and adhere to the process you've outlined.

Could you please provide further guidance on how to handle such situations? It seems that the current policies of our carriers might allow buyers to potentially exploit these rules and claim non-delivery, thus defrauding sellers. We want to ensure we are compliant with carrier policies while also protecting our business from fraudulent claims.

Thank you for your understanding and assistance in this matter.

Best regards,

30
Reply
user profile
Jurgen_Amazon
In reply to: Seller_E4U8aNuzTRyGy’s post

Hey @Seller_E4U8aNuzTRyGy

Thank you for such detailed explanation. It definitely provides us with more clarity on this topic and what roadblocks you face. I don't have an answer to your question at this moment, nevertheless, let me follow up with the team that reviews the AtoZ claims. They shared those best practices/suggestions, so I will get in contact with them, sharing these inputs and work together in finding solutions.

Please wait for me to get back to you with the answer.

Jurgen

00
user profile
Jurgen_Amazon
In reply to: Seller_E4U8aNuzTRyGy’s post

Hey @Seller_E4U8aNuzTRyGy

Thank you for such detailed explanation. It definitely provides us with more clarity on this topic and what roadblocks you face. I don't have an answer to your question at this moment, nevertheless, let me follow up with the team that reviews the AtoZ claims. They shared those best practices/suggestions, so I will get in contact with them, sharing these inputs and work together in finding solutions.

Please wait for me to get back to you with the answer.

Jurgen

00
Reply
user profile
Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ
In reply to: Jurgen_Amazon’s post

@Jurgen_Amazon@Seller_E4U8aNuzTRyGy

Jurgen

I appreciate you comments but User_342817hefjth is 100% correct. There are no alternative delivery options for Canada post or Purolator if a customer is not home and a signature is required.

If the customer has refused to pick the item up from an alternative address we would have the option to redeliver and have the customer leave a note with the tracking and a signature and allowing the courier to leave the order with out the customer being present.

The second option would be the customer leaves the item at the courier's location and it is returned to sender after a period of time.

This particular situation does not take either of these examples into account as the customer got the pick up notice, drove to the pick up location, showed government id and signed for the package.

The couriers are very strict at making customers show ID and sign where required.

This package was picked up by the customer and then for some reason they decided they would make the A to Z claim. Amazon should not have automatically approved it based on the delivery location as we followed the correct procedure for securing the order and the customer did not contact us to voice their displeasure with picking it up.

We still believe Amazon should cover the cost of this claim, under good will at the very least. We as a high volume seller try to follow all of Amazon's policies but taking a $600 loss ($450 dollars at our cost plus shipping) is very discouraging.

Please do what you can to ask some one senior at a to z to examine this situation in its totality as we do not believe it was handled properly.

Thanks

Konquer Motorcycles

10
user profile
Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ
In reply to: Jurgen_Amazon’s post

@Jurgen_Amazon@Seller_E4U8aNuzTRyGy

Jurgen

I appreciate you comments but User_342817hefjth is 100% correct. There are no alternative delivery options for Canada post or Purolator if a customer is not home and a signature is required.

If the customer has refused to pick the item up from an alternative address we would have the option to redeliver and have the customer leave a note with the tracking and a signature and allowing the courier to leave the order with out the customer being present.

The second option would be the customer leaves the item at the courier's location and it is returned to sender after a period of time.

This particular situation does not take either of these examples into account as the customer got the pick up notice, drove to the pick up location, showed government id and signed for the package.

The couriers are very strict at making customers show ID and sign where required.

This package was picked up by the customer and then for some reason they decided they would make the A to Z claim. Amazon should not have automatically approved it based on the delivery location as we followed the correct procedure for securing the order and the customer did not contact us to voice their displeasure with picking it up.

We still believe Amazon should cover the cost of this claim, under good will at the very least. We as a high volume seller try to follow all of Amazon's policies but taking a $600 loss ($450 dollars at our cost plus shipping) is very discouraging.

Please do what you can to ask some one senior at a to z to examine this situation in its totality as we do not believe it was handled properly.

Thanks

Konquer Motorcycles

10
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user profile
Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ
In reply to: Jurgen_Amazon’s post

I know Amazon has already decided they are going to give my product to the customer for free no matter what information is provided but I want to be accurate for the record.

@jurgen we did not deliver the product to an address that is different from the one the customer provided. The delivery attempt was made, the customer was not home to sign for the package, the customer subsequently went to the Purolator depot as shown on the tracking summary and picked up and signed for the package.

IT WAS NOT DELIVERED TO THE WRONG ADDRESS AS YOU KEEP STATING.

It was held for pick up at a Purolator depot where the customer picked it up and signed for it.

Amazon is 100% incorrect on the facts of this delivery and the internal team appears to be unable to understand it was fulfilled to the address on file but when the customer is not home to sign it is then taken to the depot.

The tracking shows it was delivered to after being transferred to the Purolator shipping center and would be held for 5 days at the counter.

I wish someone from Amazon who take the time to reach out as it feels like I am speaking a different language. You have our phone number please call.

Purolator Tracking 608858648249

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 3:43 p.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC Shipment delivered

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 10:55 a.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC Available for pickup for 5 business days from arrival date at the counter

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 10:46 a.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC Transferring to Shipping Centre - please wait for further instructions

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 7:30 a.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC On vehicle for delivery

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 5:52 a.m. LANGLEY, BC Arrived at sort facility

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 4:15 p.m. LANGLEY, BC Shipment unavailable - En route to Purolator pickup location

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 12:38 p.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC Attempted delivery - receiver unavailable

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 9:23 a.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC On vehicle for delivery

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 8:54 a.m. LANGLEY, BC Arrived at sort facility

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 1:33 a.m. LANGLEY, BC Arrived at sort facility

Wed. July 3, 2024 - 3:13 p.m. RICHMOND, BC Arrived at sort facility

Wed. July 3, 2024 - 3:13 p.m. RICHMOND, BC Departed sort facility

Wed. July 3, 2024 - 9:14 a.m. RICHMOND, BC Arrived at sort facility

Wed. July 3, 2024 - 1:05 a.m. PUROLATOR Shipment created - final manifest received

Tue. July 2, 2024 - 6:31 p.m. CALGARY, AB Departed sort facility

Tue. July 2, 2024 - 6:30 p.m. CALGARY, AB Picked up by Purolator

Tue. July 2, 2024 - 1:10 p.m. PUROLATOR Shipment created - interim manifest received

10
user profile
Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ
In reply to: Jurgen_Amazon’s post

I know Amazon has already decided they are going to give my product to the customer for free no matter what information is provided but I want to be accurate for the record.

@jurgen we did not deliver the product to an address that is different from the one the customer provided. The delivery attempt was made, the customer was not home to sign for the package, the customer subsequently went to the Purolator depot as shown on the tracking summary and picked up and signed for the package.

IT WAS NOT DELIVERED TO THE WRONG ADDRESS AS YOU KEEP STATING.

It was held for pick up at a Purolator depot where the customer picked it up and signed for it.

Amazon is 100% incorrect on the facts of this delivery and the internal team appears to be unable to understand it was fulfilled to the address on file but when the customer is not home to sign it is then taken to the depot.

The tracking shows it was delivered to after being transferred to the Purolator shipping center and would be held for 5 days at the counter.

I wish someone from Amazon who take the time to reach out as it feels like I am speaking a different language. You have our phone number please call.

Purolator Tracking 608858648249

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 3:43 p.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC Shipment delivered

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 10:55 a.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC Available for pickup for 5 business days from arrival date at the counter

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 10:46 a.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC Transferring to Shipping Centre - please wait for further instructions

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 7:30 a.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC On vehicle for delivery

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 5:52 a.m. LANGLEY, BC Arrived at sort facility

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 4:15 p.m. LANGLEY, BC Shipment unavailable - En route to Purolator pickup location

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 12:38 p.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC Attempted delivery - receiver unavailable

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 9:23 a.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC On vehicle for delivery

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 8:54 a.m. LANGLEY, BC Arrived at sort facility

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 1:33 a.m. LANGLEY, BC Arrived at sort facility

Wed. July 3, 2024 - 3:13 p.m. RICHMOND, BC Arrived at sort facility

Wed. July 3, 2024 - 3:13 p.m. RICHMOND, BC Departed sort facility

Wed. July 3, 2024 - 9:14 a.m. RICHMOND, BC Arrived at sort facility

Wed. July 3, 2024 - 1:05 a.m. PUROLATOR Shipment created - final manifest received

Tue. July 2, 2024 - 6:31 p.m. CALGARY, AB Departed sort facility

Tue. July 2, 2024 - 6:30 p.m. CALGARY, AB Picked up by Purolator

Tue. July 2, 2024 - 1:10 p.m. PUROLATOR Shipment created - interim manifest received

10
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user profile
Seller_E4U8aNuzTRyGy
In reply to: Jurgen_Amazon’s post

@Jurgen_Amazon

I appreciate your efforts in escalating this matter to the internal team. Could you please provide any feedback from them regarding my query?

It seems that the A-Z policy is not being consistently applied, as evidenced by the post titled "Another A-Z SCAM" resolved by @Lucre_Amzn , where evidence of delivery with signature at a Purolator pickup point was accepted by the A-Z team to refund the seller.

This discrepancy raises concerns about whether the A-Z team respects the approved carrier policies regarding signature requirements when evaluating claims. @Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ claim does not seem to be resolved as of now, although the evidence shared in this thread appears to be similar to the one in the post I referenced above; delivery with signature requirement at Purolator pickup point due to recipient missing delivery.

As sellers, it is crucial for us to understand whether the A-Z team will adhere to these carrier policies, which are intended to protect both the buyer and seller. I have previously provided a detailed explanation of the challenges we face due to the current policies. I would now appreciate a concrete response that addresses these concerns.

@Ricardo_Amazon has acknowledged the challenges that sellers face with A-Z claims saying "We are aware how painful A-to-Z claims are for sellers. We as Community Managers are actively working with our A-to-Z Escalations team in order to improve processes and make thinks easier for you all." A step forward would be the establishment of clearly defined policies that reflect the realities of carrier services and protect sellers from fraudulent claims.

Thank you for your continued attention to this matter.

20
user profile
Seller_E4U8aNuzTRyGy
In reply to: Jurgen_Amazon’s post

@Jurgen_Amazon

I appreciate your efforts in escalating this matter to the internal team. Could you please provide any feedback from them regarding my query?

It seems that the A-Z policy is not being consistently applied, as evidenced by the post titled "Another A-Z SCAM" resolved by @Lucre_Amzn , where evidence of delivery with signature at a Purolator pickup point was accepted by the A-Z team to refund the seller.

This discrepancy raises concerns about whether the A-Z team respects the approved carrier policies regarding signature requirements when evaluating claims. @Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ claim does not seem to be resolved as of now, although the evidence shared in this thread appears to be similar to the one in the post I referenced above; delivery with signature requirement at Purolator pickup point due to recipient missing delivery.

As sellers, it is crucial for us to understand whether the A-Z team will adhere to these carrier policies, which are intended to protect both the buyer and seller. I have previously provided a detailed explanation of the challenges we face due to the current policies. I would now appreciate a concrete response that addresses these concerns.

@Ricardo_Amazon has acknowledged the challenges that sellers face with A-Z claims saying "We are aware how painful A-to-Z claims are for sellers. We as Community Managers are actively working with our A-to-Z Escalations team in order to improve processes and make thinks easier for you all." A step forward would be the establishment of clearly defined policies that reflect the realities of carrier services and protect sellers from fraudulent claims.

Thank you for your continued attention to this matter.

20
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user profile
Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ
In reply to: Seller_E4U8aNuzTRyGy’s post

Here is an update on my case.... The tracking shows the package was taken to the couriers pick up location. The final tracking and signature show the address of the Purolator depot.

A to Z is using that as justification to claim the package was not delivered to the correct location as the Purolator tracking shows the item was delivered to the pick up location (not the customers address).

We have had customers pick up hundreds of items at Purolator depots or agents in the past when signatures are required and they were not home for the delivery. Normally they do not specify the address of the depot which is part of the confusion by the A to Z team. I still think this was a mistake on behalf of the A to Z team but as usual they are not willing to consider they made an error.

Here is the tracking information off the Purolator website, I am exhausted by this process and Amazon's inability to have a manager review what is a refiund in error.

If you google the address it was delivered to in the tracking it shows a picture of a Purolator agent. (The business is called Quality cell phone repair and if you zoom in on the picture it shows the Purolator agent decal on the window).

If you look on the Purolator website under locations the address below is listed as a Purolator agent/ depot.

22209 DEWDNEY TRUNK ROAD,V2X3H8

(From the Purolator website)

Quality Cell Phone Repair

22209 Dewdney Trunk RD

Maple Ridge BC, V2X 3H8

778-992-5992

Closed Now

Click to see Last drop offs:

Additional Information:

Package and Label free QR code returns services NOT AVAILABLE. Only pre-paid package drop-offs or account-based shipments are accepted.

(Tracking info with a picture of the signature which I could not paste on here)

Shipment: 608858648249

Picked Up

Delivery Date

Fri. July 5, 2024 3:43 p.m.

Last updated: Fri. July 5, 2024

Receiver's Signature Receiver's Signature

Received By: C BXXXXXXXri pi

Shipment Details

Origin

CALGARY, AB, CA

Destination

MAPLE RIDGE, BC, CA

References

164429001

Service

Purolator Ground

Est. Weight

1 lb

Shipment Date

Tue. July 2, 2024

History

Date City Description

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 3:43 p.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC Shipment delivered to C BoXXXXXXXri pi at: 22209 DEWDNEY TRUNK ROAD,V2X3H8

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 10:55 a.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC Available for pickup for 5 business days from arrival date at the counter

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 10:46 a.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC Transferring to Shipping Centre - please wait for further instructions

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 7:30 a.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC On vehicle for delivery

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 5:52 a.m. LANGLEY, BC Arrived at sort facility

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 4:15 p.m. LANGLEY, BC Shipment unavailable - En route to Purolator pickup location

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 12:38 p.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC Attempted delivery - receiver unavailable

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 9:23 a.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC On vehicle for delivery

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 8:54 a.m. LANGLEY, BC Arrived at sort facility

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 1:33 a.m. LANGLEY, BC Arrived at sort facility

Wed. July 3, 2024 - 3:13 p.m. RICHMOND, BC Arrived at sort facility

Wed. July 3, 2024 - 3:13 p.m. RICHMOND, BC Departed sort facility

Wed. July 3, 2024 - 9:14 a.m. RICHMOND, BC Arrived at sort facility

Wed. July 3, 2024 - 1:05 a.m. PUROLATOR Shipment created - final manifest received

Tue. July 2, 2024 - 6:31 p.m. CALGARY, AB Departed sort facility

Tue. July 2, 2024 - 6:30 p.m. CALGARY, AB Picked up by Purolator at CALGARY,AB

Tue. July 2, 2024 - 1:10 p.m. PUROLATOR Shipment created - interim manifest received

10
user profile
Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ
In reply to: Seller_E4U8aNuzTRyGy’s post

Here is an update on my case.... The tracking shows the package was taken to the couriers pick up location. The final tracking and signature show the address of the Purolator depot.

A to Z is using that as justification to claim the package was not delivered to the correct location as the Purolator tracking shows the item was delivered to the pick up location (not the customers address).

We have had customers pick up hundreds of items at Purolator depots or agents in the past when signatures are required and they were not home for the delivery. Normally they do not specify the address of the depot which is part of the confusion by the A to Z team. I still think this was a mistake on behalf of the A to Z team but as usual they are not willing to consider they made an error.

Here is the tracking information off the Purolator website, I am exhausted by this process and Amazon's inability to have a manager review what is a refiund in error.

If you google the address it was delivered to in the tracking it shows a picture of a Purolator agent. (The business is called Quality cell phone repair and if you zoom in on the picture it shows the Purolator agent decal on the window).

If you look on the Purolator website under locations the address below is listed as a Purolator agent/ depot.

22209 DEWDNEY TRUNK ROAD,V2X3H8

(From the Purolator website)

Quality Cell Phone Repair

22209 Dewdney Trunk RD

Maple Ridge BC, V2X 3H8

778-992-5992

Closed Now

Click to see Last drop offs:

Additional Information:

Package and Label free QR code returns services NOT AVAILABLE. Only pre-paid package drop-offs or account-based shipments are accepted.

(Tracking info with a picture of the signature which I could not paste on here)

Shipment: 608858648249

Picked Up

Delivery Date

Fri. July 5, 2024 3:43 p.m.

Last updated: Fri. July 5, 2024

Receiver's Signature Receiver's Signature

Received By: C BXXXXXXXri pi

Shipment Details

Origin

CALGARY, AB, CA

Destination

MAPLE RIDGE, BC, CA

References

164429001

Service

Purolator Ground

Est. Weight

1 lb

Shipment Date

Tue. July 2, 2024

History

Date City Description

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 3:43 p.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC Shipment delivered to C BoXXXXXXXri pi at: 22209 DEWDNEY TRUNK ROAD,V2X3H8

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 10:55 a.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC Available for pickup for 5 business days from arrival date at the counter

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 10:46 a.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC Transferring to Shipping Centre - please wait for further instructions

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 7:30 a.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC On vehicle for delivery

Fri. July 5, 2024 - 5:52 a.m. LANGLEY, BC Arrived at sort facility

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 4:15 p.m. LANGLEY, BC Shipment unavailable - En route to Purolator pickup location

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 12:38 p.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC Attempted delivery - receiver unavailable

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 9:23 a.m. MAPLE RIDGE, BC On vehicle for delivery

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 8:54 a.m. LANGLEY, BC Arrived at sort facility

Thu. July 4, 2024 - 1:33 a.m. LANGLEY, BC Arrived at sort facility

Wed. July 3, 2024 - 3:13 p.m. RICHMOND, BC Arrived at sort facility

Wed. July 3, 2024 - 3:13 p.m. RICHMOND, BC Departed sort facility

Wed. July 3, 2024 - 9:14 a.m. RICHMOND, BC Arrived at sort facility

Wed. July 3, 2024 - 1:05 a.m. PUROLATOR Shipment created - final manifest received

Tue. July 2, 2024 - 6:31 p.m. CALGARY, AB Departed sort facility

Tue. July 2, 2024 - 6:30 p.m. CALGARY, AB Picked up by Purolator at CALGARY,AB

Tue. July 2, 2024 - 1:10 p.m. PUROLATOR Shipment created - interim manifest received

10
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user profile
Seller_HY11pBXR5oxuG
In reply to: Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ’s post

Same old A to Z team nonsense. It all depends on the person you get on the A to Z team. Sometimes they know how it is done and other times you get this nonsense. We have seen it all over the years.

30
user profile
Seller_HY11pBXR5oxuG
In reply to: Seller_I243tlANJDFaQ’s post

Same old A to Z team nonsense. It all depends on the person you get on the A to Z team. Sometimes they know how it is done and other times you get this nonsense. We have seen it all over the years.

30
Reply
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