Customer filed an A-to-Z claim they weren't eligible to file by policy
The claims team granted an a-to-z claim, refunding the customer and hitting our ODR. I have no issue with the refund. We would have done the same. It's the hit to the ODR that I take issue with, since per Amazon policy the customer should not have been allowed to file a claim to begin with, as they didn't meet the conditions. They never contacted us regarding a return/refund/missing product.
Eligibility Conditions:
1. You haven't received your package.
Three days have passed since the latest estimated delivery date
OR the tracking shows a delivery confirmation (whichever is sooner)
AND you have contacted the Seller more than 48 hours ago but they did not respond or resolve the issue.
I filed an appeal and it was denied. I opened a case and it was immediately closed.
Order ID: 114-8095488-1799428
Case ID: 14986849861
Can a mod help me and get this looked at, please? All I want here is for the impact to our ODR to be removed. Thank you.
Customer filed an A-to-Z claim they weren't eligible to file by policy
The claims team granted an a-to-z claim, refunding the customer and hitting our ODR. I have no issue with the refund. We would have done the same. It's the hit to the ODR that I take issue with, since per Amazon policy the customer should not have been allowed to file a claim to begin with, as they didn't meet the conditions. They never contacted us regarding a return/refund/missing product.
Eligibility Conditions:
1. You haven't received your package.
Three days have passed since the latest estimated delivery date
OR the tracking shows a delivery confirmation (whichever is sooner)
AND you have contacted the Seller more than 48 hours ago but they did not respond or resolve the issue.
I filed an appeal and it was denied. I opened a case and it was immediately closed.
Order ID: 114-8095488-1799428
Case ID: 14986849861
Can a mod help me and get this looked at, please? All I want here is for the impact to our ODR to be removed. Thank you.
0 replies
Seller_OvL8C4BJWiuS9
If you search the forums about this issue, it's all over the place. Amazon doesn't follow their own rules on most everything.
Seller_R2dP7Hunjcdj0
This is such an Old Tune, I could sing it by heart.
A search on this very Forum will find similar Posts going back YEARS.
Here is what you need to understand going forward:
1) THE RESTATING OF THE AMAZON POLICY HERE BY YOU IS THE CORRECT POLICY.
2) YOU ARE NOT THE FIRST SELLER TO HAVE THIS HAPPEN AND THEN POST THE SAME RESULT.
Now here is what you do not yet understand:
3) AMAZON CONSIDERS THE FILING OF THE A-Z CLAIM TO BE "CONTACTING THE SELLER".
So, while your reading of the Policy IS correct, and I agree with you in principle, IN PRACTICE, Amazon sees it differently, and unfortunately, Amazon's opinion is the ONLY one that matters here.
Amazon also made it clear that to "WIN" the A-Z Claim, the Seller MUST respond to a Buyer message within 48 hours.
But IF the Seller never messages the Buyer and simply files the A-Z Claim, Amazon considers the Seller to have been notified, and to respond when directed. Personally, I reply immediately and do not wait for the Amazon A.I. to (potentially) get it wrong and require an appeal.
So, the takeaway going forward is this; now that you KNOW that Amazon sees it this way, you have two options:
1) ACCEPT this, and work within the new paradigm.
OR
2) DENY this, and keep doing what you are doing (and hope that somehow it will work for you).
I hope you will prioritize intelligence over Ego and choose option 1 so this does not reoccur to you.
Good Luck!
Seller_wnc1pjYEF5ZqF
The problem with this logic is that claims are now auto-granted by bots, so you have no opportunity to respond to the customer or represent against the claim at all. Instead of getting a notification that a claim as been opened, you get a notification that a claim has been granted and your account has been debited.
Seller_R2dP7Hunjcdj0
One of the ways to avoid this problem is to check the A-Z Claims regularly.
We keep the following Amazon tabs "Open" so we can check them periodically throughout the day:
Amazon Seller Central Page
Business Reports
Payments
Manage Returns
Manage Inventory
Manage Sales
Feedback Manager
A-Z Guarantee Claims
and
Chargeback Claims
By keeping these open and checking them often, a Seller will be able to keep on top of what Amazon is doing, and to respond to it.
We NEVER lose A-Z Claims. This is not because Amazon likes us more, it is because we simply follow the procedures.
Seller_R2dP7Hunjcdj0
No, actually I address that point specifically. Perhaps you should read my post again, as you fundamentally misunderstand the contents.
What you, and all those who "Thumbs-Down" my response are doing is simply "Shooting the Messenger".
I do not make Amazon Policy, and have no authority to alter the outcome of other Seller's Claim results.
But I CAN give advice based on Policy, precedent, and personal experience.
Which is exactly WHY my response WAS "Helpful", in that it WILL Help the Seller, and ALL other Sellers to come to AVOID this occurring to them.
1) THE RESTATING OF THE AMAZON POLICY HERE BY YOU IS THE CORRECT POLICY.
2) YOU ARE NOT THE FIRST SELLER TO HAVE THIS HAPPEN AND THEN POST THE SAME RESULT.
Now here is what you do not yet understand:
3) AMAZON CONSIDERS THE FILING OF THE A-Z CLAIM TO BE "CONTACTING THE SELLER".
So, while your reading of the Policy IS correct, and I agree with you in principle, IN PRACTICE, Amazon sees it differently, and unfortunately, Amazon's opinion is the ONLY one that matters here.
So, whether or not you "Like" the message DOES NOT change the facts.
And for the record, I never claimed the OP's Ego had ANYTHING to do with their CURRENT problem:
You see that I actually closed with the valid point that the choice between a Seller changing their behavior and so AVOIDING the problem from reoccurring, as opposed to a Seller NOT changing their behavior, is a choice between Intelligence and Ego (which it truly is). It was not a "Personal Attack", such as calling another Seller "Arrogant and Unhelpful".
Finally, when you stated
and yet directed it to ME, don't you mean "For" and not "From"?
As for appearing to be arrogant, Email lacks tone. I apologize if anyone took it to be so. I was attempting to clearly state the facts so as to help the OP avoid this from happening again.
However, this Forum is a place for information sharing. It is NOT a chatroom for Amazon-Haters to commiserate about how Amazon is so unfair.
There are MANY things that need "Fixing" on Amazon, but this is NOT a problem that is going to be "Fixed" by complaining about it here. If it WERE, it would have been "Fixed" MANY YEARS AGO when this was first pointed-out...
And THAT was back when we could actually telephone Competent, Well-Trained U.S.A. Based Seller Support Staff who had some actual Authority.
So, believe it or not, Amazon considers the filing of an A-Z Claim as THE BUYER CONTACTING THE Seller. Since all I am repeating is the way things work in this situation, their are really only two ways to handle it:
1) ACCEPT this, and work within the new paradigm.
OR
2) DENY this, and keep doing what you are doing (and hope that somehow it will work for you).
I hope you understand so it doesn't happen to you as well.
By the way, what YOU, and most others failed to miss is this curious phrase from the OP:
I find it VERY interesting that the Seller in question BELIEVES the Buyer SHOULD have been Refunded for cause, but is complaining about the Metrics hit. If the Seller is truly at fault, then the Metrics hit is justified, right?
Have none of you ever had to Return / Replace or Report an Missing package on Amazon as a Buyer yourself? When a Buyer decides to file a Claim with Amazon for a "Problem", they do NOT hit a button that says "File an A-Z Claim".
If Amazon HAD such an option, then perhaps it could specify that the Buyer FIRST contact the Seller and attempt to resolve the issue.
But it does NOT.
The ONLY option for the Buyer is to hit the button that states "Return or Replace Items". For example, IF the Buyer chooses that the item did not arrive, an A-Z Claim is filed against the Seller for INR.
IF you, and ANY other Sellers like you wish to continue to believe that a Buyer is prevented from filing an A-Z Claim simply because they did NOT contact the Seller first, ask yourself HOW this policy is enforced? What method actually PREVENTS the Buyer from filing the Claim unless messaging the Seller first?
NOTHING.
So, expecting Amazon to come-in after the fact and Dismiss the Claim simply because the Buyer did not message the Seller first is unrealistic.
Understand?
Seller_R2dP7Hunjcdj0
Actually, the Buyer SHOULD NOT have been able to file a Claim at all on an order that late, as tracking is usually only kept at 90 days.
I would have appealed the Claim as too overdue to validate either way, and IF you purchased Postage using Amazon Buy Shipping AND the origin scan by the carrier was before the close of the ship-by window, you are supposed to be protected by the Amazon Policy against any "Problem with Delivery".
Hopefully you can get a Full Refund from the Carrier Shipping Insurance for "Lost" package. If you used Amazon Buy Shipping than it was covered at the value you used for "Declared Value" when purchased.
Good Luck!
Seller_R2dP7Hunjcdj0
IF this is Provably True, than you should APPEAL the Claim with that info, as you are supposed to be covered.
If not, here is what I would do in the future IF this rare scenario were to reoccur.
The Seller is supposed to have 48 hours to Respond the the A-Z Claim before Amazon takes final action, and then the Seller is given more time in the opportunity to appeal after Amazon acts.
IF I were to receive an A-Z Claim for INR under those circumstances, AND I was under Amazon Policy for Protection )as you claim), then I would Appeal the Claim with the evidence that you are within Policy (you can prove the package was scanned On-Time). I would expect to "Win".
IF there is no tracking available any longer due to age, then I would Refund the Buyer In-Full BEFORE Amazon acts, then Respond to Amazon that once you were made aware of this Missing Package, and that tracking is no longer available due to age, you issued a Full Refund to the Buyer. At that point the Claim would be "Closed", and you would not have received the "Hit".
However, IF you waited for Amazon to Refund instead of YOU refunding, then Amazon WOULD consider that to be a Violation, Refund the Buyer and Hit your Metrics. I believe this is what happened to you.
I hope I have help you going forward. Hopefully this is SO rare as to not happen to you again.
Good Luck!
Seller_ICE4Ps48S5aso
Simple answer... IT DOESN'T MATTER to Amazon.
Just ask yourself.. "What have you done to Delight Amazon's customers today??" If the answer is NOTHING, you better expect Amazon to give away YOUR money for free.
Seller_xlf3vF516IRli
Where? Because that is 100% NOT in the policy that is clearly written. You've been told several times in this thread that the policy is clearly:
AND you have contacted the Seller more than 48 hours ago but they did not respond or resolve the issue.
and yet you continually state above about the filing of an A-Z being the contact point. However you are not ELIGIBLE to even file a claim unless this condition is met in the first place. That line above is taken directly from the A-Z Guarantee page on Amazon.com. https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=GQ37ZCNECJKTFYQV
The OP's problem is that this customer did NOT contact them prior to being allowed to file the claim, so that condition was not met, which puts this entire A-Z outside of policy. Usually when one of the conditions isn't met, Amazon CAN grant an A-Z anyways, but then funds it themselves with no metric hits. It's their way of delighting the customer and not punishing the seller when it's a clear case of outside policy. However in this case some bot has ignored facts, and it needs to be manually reviewed again. Can we get @KJ_Amazon @Veronica_Amazon@Dominic_Amazon to weigh in here and maybe get the OP's case escalated?
Seller_3X5b3oiZv8IcZ
And now you understand why I came here looking for mod help.
